Emerging Church

From Deconstruction to Kingdom Building

Drew Goodmanson has an interesting post that should give some perspective to emerging-type churches.

To make a Kingdom-impact on your local community and the world-at-large, you must move from Deconstruction to Kingdom Building.

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If you are an emerging church, what is your identity? As I attend ‘postmodern’ or churches that would say they are ‘emerging’ they usually can tell me what they are not. We don’t have central leadership, we don’t sing old-school hymns, we don’t have traditional worship, we don’t…[fill in the blank]. In the long run, I don’t think you can rally too many people to this cause and anti-identity.

Gospel at the Center

Doug Baker has written a new article in Baptist Press, "The Gospel at the Center."  In it he works through emerging church issues and theology, Rob Bell and Brian McLaren, and finds it all pretty dangerous.  Do you agree?

While no human being will ever be ableadequately to explain the mystery of the incarnation, the resurrection, or the Trinity, a “generous orthodoxy” (an idea taken from McLaren’s book by the same title) would never reframe these doctrines or others like them in such fluid terms so as to confuse others of their true meaning. In the end, this orthodoxy is not generous, but dangerous.

CT Interviews Donald Miller

I've been looking for this online ever since the new Christianity Today came out and I read it.  Well, it's finally online.  Donald Miller is interviewed by Stan Guthrie: "Finding God in Odd Places: There's more to faith than grids and logic, says Donald Miller."  I think it's thought provoking.  Here's the last section, but please go and read it all.

You are big on the experiential. How about truth?

Ultimately everything is purely experiential. If we could divide the complexity of our reality into grids and categories, God would have communicated through the Bible in grids and categories. There are mysteries that cannot be explained logically.

That isn't to say there isn't truth. I certainly believe there's absolute truth. My criticism is, however many years ago, that the Bible or Christian spirituality was changed out of an experiential [approach] into grids and logical kinds of thinking.

I think it's hurt our faith. I think it's hurt me. For instance, I had always grown up believing the Lord's Prayer was a list of philosophical paradigms that we'd check off. But when we actually read the text, we understand that Jesus is teaching us a dynamic new way to experience faith, that we will relate to God as a father. It wasn't until I understood that the dynamic of our faith is relational rather than logical that I started maturing in my faith.

Can't you bring them together?

Well, certainly you can.

"Rather than" is pretty stark.

It is very stark. But it's the language of our culture.

So you're overstating your case.

I'm overstating my case, because I don't feel like anybody will listen if I don't.

Mark Driscoll - Emergent No

(This post has been adjusted out of respect for Carla at E-No)  Carla over at Emergent No has emailed Mark Driscoll to ask a few questions.  He didn't really respond to the questions because he's busy, but he did say that some great things are on the way...

I've got a book coming out with Zondervan on thehistory of our church and our involvement in the emerging church, finishing a counterpoints type of book for Zondervan on emerging church theology with Dan Kimball, Karen Ward, Doug Pagitt, John Burke and myself that will hit the atonement, trinity, and scripture to be edited by Robert Webber. I have also compiled a team of very solid evangelical theologians who are largely younger for a new network that will be launching a web site with blogs, articles, mp3s, podcasting, national theology conferences across the country, and a line of theologically oriented books for missionally minded emerging leaders. So, I hope to make a contribution to the broader church in a big way very soon. You are free to post any of this you like on your site.

Man, I'm pumped.  Good stuff is on the way. 

Read the whole E-No post.

On Drawing Lines in the EC

Okay, let me openly say that I don't get it.  And things are changing fast with this situation, so let's think this through.

Frost and Hirsch of Forge have an internal paper that basically says, as far as I can tell, that the emerging church contains various groups and is very diverse.  They want to make clear that what Carson is dealing with in his book is not what they are dealing with in Australia.  They want to make it clear that they are more conservative and more strategic in their pursuit of church planting (CPM's).  I get it so far, but Emergent seems very uncomfortable with drawing lines inside the emerging church and have very aggressively/defensively told everyone to "stop it."

My question is, What's wrong with drawing lines inside the emerging church?

I have great respect for Brian McLaren, and things he has written (I've read a few) have helped me realize that people in the ec are asking the same questions as I have for the last couple of years.  I've realized others see the same problem issues in evangelicalism as I have.  It's connected me to a larger crowd and helped me be challenged beyond accepting what I've been told "just because."  I think there are some in evangelicalism who need to be confronted by his writings and realize where we are failing.  In that sense I am very sympathetic to the emerging church and McLaren.  He's one of those guys who challenges you by offending you.

But I also realize that McLaren and others are asking some questions that I'm not asking.  They are doubting some things I'm not doubting.  And I don't get that from Carson's book, but from my own reading and understanding of him.  So because of that, I think it's helpful and even necessary for people inside the ec to say that we don't agree with all that is being said inside the ec.  I think there is a need to draw some lines, even when we want to remain sympathetic to the ec as a whole.  Is that considered unacceptable?

I think Frost and Hirsch and Forge have acted in wisdom.  To go after them for drawing lines is, I think, to deny them the goal of being missional.  To be missional means to be incarnational in your context and culture, to understand local needs and issues and deal with them as the context dictates.  Incarnational ministry is not only incarnational to the world, but also to the Christians around us.  And if being incarnational in Australia means drawing a few lines inside the emerging church to show that Forge is different than Brian McLaren though they are all a part of the same conversation, so be it.  I think being incarnational in the U.S. may mean that for many of us too.

That seems to make a lot of sense to me, and it seems heavy-handed for Emergent to say that drawing lines for the sake of incarnational ministry (while still holding to a unity of faith and even of ec values) isn't good enough. 

Am I all wet or what?

Missional and Emergent

Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch, authors of The Shaping of Things to Come (I'm through some of it, good stuff) and leaders of a missional training organization in Australia called Forge, have come out with a paper (delinked, see updates below) responding to D.A. Carson's Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church.

I think this is a very helpful document.  It makes clear some lines between ec/Emergent stuff and missional.  I think I will have more to say about this at a later time. 

(HT: Andrew Jones- TSK and Andrew Hamilton, also read the comments on both as Tony Jones, National Coordinator of Emergent chimes in with an unfavorable reading)

UPDATE 7.21.05: Darryl over at Dash House indexes thoughts from Jordon Cooper, Alan Hirsch, and Tony Jones.

UPDATE 7.22.05: Andrew Hamilton has delinked the article and requested others do so while Forge rethinks what was said.   Curious.  My link is no longer available at this request.

Mohler and Emerging Church

While I was on vacation Al Mohler decided to put up two consecutive articles on the emerging church: part one and part two.  I think he was trying to slip them past me. :)  My responses are intended to be reflections on what I read, not a response to him or a rebuttal. 

As others have noted, Mohler spends most of his time rehashing much of Don Carson's book on the emerging church (ec).  That's fine, and much of what Carson says is helpful.  But in Mohler's articles, like in most anti-ec stuff, it comes down to what McLaren says vs. historic Christian doctrine.  That's a bit unfair.  There's room for a discussion on McLaren and doctrine, but let's just not imply that McLaren speaks for the ec.

I guess what I'm thinking is that for Mohler and Carson all their critique of the ec is based on their critique of postmodernism, as if the ec is about a wholesale commitment to being pomo.  I understand the idea of being ec as being aware of postmodernism in culture and communicating clearly in their vernacular.  I could be wrong, and am happy to discuss this.  I also know that not all ec'rs have the same convictions on this.

So Mohler will say things like...

By denying that truth is propositional, Emerging Church theorists avoid and renounce any responsibility to defend many of the doctrines long considered essential to the Christian faith.

I'm happy to admit that some in the ec have greatly downplayed propositions, but mostly in response to an evangelicalism that wrongly has made propositions the truest truth.  The Bible is the truest truth we have and proposition are a way of verbalizing theology as we study the truth.  More on propositions in a bit.

Mohler writes...

I am constantly confronted by young pastors who identify themselves with the Emerging Church movement but deny that they associate themselves with the aberrant theological impulses and outright doctrinal denials that characterize the writings of the movement's most well-known and influential leaders.

I completely agree with D. A. Carson when he reflects: "I would feel much less worried about the directions being taken by other Emerging Church leaders if these leaders would rise up and call McLaren and Chalke to account where they have clearly abandoned what the Bible actually says."

I think the issue is that Mohler and Carson take everyone sympathetic to the ec and make them McLarenites who must deny the heresies of their highly exalted leader.  Who says you can't be sympathetic to the ec and disagree with McLaren?  Mohler and Carson have worked hard to broadbrush here, but I just don't see it.  They want clean lines at all times dividing the good and bad, the true and false.  But the Reformation included some fuzzy boundaries for a while, didn't it?  We need to be aware that it's okay for things to be fuzzy for a while on some things (not all) for real change to happen.  And even Mohler admits that evangelicalism needs to look at changing.  More coming on that below.

Let me say that it would be nice to hear Mohler rejoice that some ec'rs are happy to reject what's wrong with some theology the ec.  Why not give these young leaders credit?  Why not be excited that there is evidence that bad theology isn't just being swallowed by ec'rs?  Why not see this as evidence that Mohler and Carson's determinations on the ec as this postmodern, truth-denying, proposition-denying, foundation-denying community is not exactly what they thought?  I would think this would make Mohler take a fresh look and wonder if his initial assessment of the ec is less than right on.

Mohler finishes the final post with....

The real question is this: will the future leaders of the Emerging Church acknowledge that, while truth is always more than propositional, it is never less? Will they come to affirm that a core of non-negotiable doctrines constitutes a necessary set of boundaries to authentic Christian faith? Will they embrace an understanding of Christianity that reforms the evangelical movement without denying its virtues?

This is the first thing Mohler has done that I know of where he actually seems to want an answer.  I hope that is his intention, because until now I think he has worked so hard to scold that he is losing any influence he had.  Here I think he is more helpful.  I think the questions are good.

At the same time, the tables must be turned. Will evangelicals be willing to direct hard and honest critical analysis at our own cultural embeddedness, intellectual faults, and organizational hubris?

Fantastic.  Finally the concerns of the ec are being addressed by one of the most eloquent spokesmen of the evangelical world.  With that, I think Mohler's articles deserve to be reread and reheard and reseen with a little more openness because he is taking the pointing finger of judgment and turning it at least a little bit inward on evangelicals. 

Shoot, more like this and we may actually get somewhere.  This is the best of Mohler we have on the ec to date.

Emergent Evangelism

Doug Baker, who recently wrote this article that I was quoted in, has written a new article in Baptist Press titled, "Emergent Evangelism: Evangelism by Consensus?"  Here's a piece...

The "emerging" conversation is more than ageneration gap in which the theology of former days (or lack of it) is being challenged by a wave of young ministers with cell phones, PDAs and e-mail via Blackberry. The tension is most evident in the perennial debate among evangelicals about how to "do" church. What should the church look like? How should the church of the 21st century worship and minister in a context of ever-increasing information, but diminishing wisdom? To what extent should tradition be jettisoned in favor of a "whatever works" strategy, and will such strategies reduce Christian evangelism to a mere technique?

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Never has the need been more critical for the Gospel to be powerfully preached by the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. How that is done is largely settled in Holy Scripture. The public reading of the Bible, the corporate prayer of the church, the singing of psalms, hymns and spiritual songs to one another, the ordinances of Christian baptism and the Lord’s Supper, the offering of confession and thanksgiving to God are all elements of public worship which are explicitly revealed in Scripture. Is it not strange that almost every modern theory of “emerging” churches disregard many of these direct commands in favor of more “evangelistic” and “relevant” methods? No amount of technology or innovation can ever eclipse or manipulate the clear biblical teaching that evangelism is not simply a matter of form, but of substance.

The Gospel is powerfully effective to save to the uttermost those who have faith in Jesus Christ. For the Gospel is not something men made up by consensus. The plan of salvation is not the accumulation and production of man’s thoughts, but the direct revelation of God. As such, it is to be preached, not amended according to demographics, and boldly declared, not adjusted for the sensitivities of modern audiences.

Please read the article and let me know if I'm missing something.  Is Doug saying emergent evangelism is form without substance?  Is it technology and not truth?  Is it whatever works and mere technique?  Am I totally missing something?  If I'm not, then I think this is a very skewed understanding of the emerging church.  Hey Doug, I know you stop by now and again.  Feel free to jump in bro, and let me know if I get your right or not.

EC Mudslinging

Interesting post from Andrew Jones (TallSkinnyKiwi)...

Can I say it publicly? The season of emerging church mudslinging isover. Now its time to bless each other, rise up with wings like angels . . . and fly.

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And I am not saying that we should stop the discipline of examining ourselves daily or welcoming constructive criticism, but I am saying that I think a lot of us have done enough explaining and defending to feel like we are freed up again to get back to the mission of helping God reconcile all things to Himself, and not to feel dampened.

Storming Emergent

I've been looking forward to the online ministry of Sam Storms for a while now.  It's good to see Enjoying God Ministries is up and at 'em (so Piperesque, I know, but God is fairly Piperesque, so that's cool I guess). 

Storms is working through Carson's book on the emerging church and putting up a series of responses as an "extended review."  I'm linking them here as they come online.  By the way, Mark Driscoll has a nice, concise review of Carson's book on Amazon.

Part 1; Part 2; Part 3

Emergent Collective Response

Doug Pagitt writes,

A number of us have been working for a few months on a collectiveresponse to criticisms that have been made about us and Emergent.  We decided to put a document together, not for the purpose of settling all matters, but to try and put words around our hopes, and to give those who have to respond on our behalf some indication of what we are thinking on these matters.

I imagine that others would like to "sign on" to this response, if not in words then in spirit. Those listed are among the people who have been "called out" either for what they have written or said, but mostly what has been written.

And here's a link to the collective response (PDF file) by Brian McLaren, Doug Pagitt, Chris Seay, Spencer Burke, Dan Kimball, Andrew Jones, and Tony Jones.

I think it's a great response that needs very wide reading, from the staunch critic who has likened Brian McLaren to a cult leader to the blogger who hates emergent because their pastor told them to.  These four pages won't answer all the questions or do enough to moisten the dry tongue of the critics, but I think it carries wisdom as well as a humble spirit.

I want to play briefly with one thought that came to mind while reading this.  Often in church history the greatest theologians, authors, hymn writers (and so on) were pastors.  The practitioners were writing and their writing was informed not only by their preaching, but their daily involvement with the pains and joys of the local church ministry.  Is the Emerging Church about recovering that?  I'm not sure, but I think it's worth thinking about.

OTHER LINKS: Official post and conversation at Emergent-US; TallSkinnyKiwi; Justin Taylor; Emergent No; A-Team Blog; Subversive Influence;
 

Nailing Jello w/o a Hammer

There's nothing like a poorly written, poorly researched article on the Emerging Church to wake me up in the morning.  (Yeah it's almost noon, but I was watching Episode III at midnight).

I'm all for good critique of the EC, but this isn't it.  "McLaren" only has one "c," by the way.  And if one more person says "trying to define the Emerging Church is like trying to nail jello to a wall," I'm gonna scream.  Find a new word picture, please!  If there is anything that everyone should learn from the EC it's that creativity (instead of imitation) is a good thing.