SBC

Importance of Network Structure

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As far as I am aware, no historical denomination has ever been able to fully recover its earlier, more fluid and dynamic movement ethos again.  That's why it is the network structure, where power and responsibility is diffused throughout the organization and not concentrated at the center, that more approximates our real nature and calling as the body of Christ.  A network structure thus guards us from the dangerous creep of religious institutionalism.

Alan Hirsch in The Forgotten Ways, page 188.

Derek Webb Interview

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Webb_2I really enjoyed Said at Southern's two-part podcast interview with Derek Webb (one, two) and encourage you to give it a listen.

One thing I love about Webb is his musical and creative progress, as well as his theological progress over the years from the gospel to the implications of the gospel.  His Caedmon's and early solo writing is more gospel and his current stuff is more implications.  This is how we all should progress, right?  Some think that an album like Mockingbird shows gospel changes in Webb, but I think that's a steaming pile.  His second interview shows that his thinking on the gospel hasn't changed except that he has actually tried to work out the implications of the gospel. 

I also love the discussion on labels (they ask him several very good questions) and how hard Webb tries to avoid them and why.  Even as the first half of this interview drew fire from the more reformed crowd, Webb proves himself more humble and more thoughtful and more generous than that crowd in the second interview (which was obviously recorded at the same time as the first and before he knew the response). 

Some don't like Webb for his thoughts on politics, or friendship with Don Miller or Jim Wallis, but these interviews show that Webb is one of the most thoughtful, helpful, dynamic, engaging and self-aware artists out there.  He personifies what it means to be able to hold tight to truth and theology while still listening to other voices. 

Congrats to Tony and the Said at Southern folk.  It was not only a good interview, but it challenged me to think about the gospel, faithfulness, music, and more.  And I love the fact that this interview is done by a website that includes the name of Southern Seminary even as the interview brought fire on Webb from SBTS alumni.  Funny...and sad.

Baptism, the Lord's Supper, and Some Dudes

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Sam Storms' response to the whole baptism and the Lord's Supper thing that has been buzzing around online: "Piper, Grudem, Dever, et al, on Baptism, the Lord's Table, and Church Membership (just how "Together for the Gospel" are we?)"

I read the article this morning but with no direct link available (and some grocery shopping to do) I left it alone.  In the mean time Glenn Lucke wrote a great post and Abraham Piper quoted some Storms.

You need to read the whole Storm's article for context, but I agree with him and loved this paragraph...

My question...is this: How can we claim to be "together" or "united" for the sake of the gospel and turn away a brother or sister from the very expression and proclamation of that gospel that is so central to the life and testimony of the church? What does this prohibition say to the world around us? What must they think of our professed "togetherness" or "unity" when the elements of the Eucharist would be withheld from a brother such as Ligon Duncan?

Brewing Battle

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Christianity Today has a short article recapping the situation with Missouri Baptists: Brewing Battle.  Nothing terribly new or informative to those who have been keeping up, but concise with some helpful external links at the end for those needing to catch up.

The policy addresses an ongoing SBC debate. Baptistshave championed alcohol abstinence since the late 1800s, but a growing number want the SBC to reexamine the issue, said Timothy George, dean of Beeson Divinity School.

"There is growing discontent, people saying that we shouldn't be mandating things that aren't spoken clearly about in Scripture," George said. "It's hard to argue that the Bible requires total abstinence."

9 Marks Blog: Church Matters

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9 Marks, the very helpful ministry of Mark Dever and Matt Schmucker from Capitol Hill Baptist in DC, now has a blog. Check out Mark Dever’s introductory post.  From a 9 Marks email...

Ourintended audience, as with most of 9Marks material, is pastors, church leaders, and seminarians. At the same time, we hope that all Christians become more interested in church matters, because we believe the local church is the focal point of God’s plan for displaying his glory to the nations. That includes all of us who profess faith in Christ.

Blog contributors will consist of Mark Dever, Matt Schmucker, Jonathan Leeman, and the 9Marks lead writers, as well as several like-minded pastors and occasional guests. For the time being, we thought we’d try opening the blog to public comments. Hopefully it can be used as a place of honest inquiry and discussion regarding pastoring and leading local church life.

Lots-O-Links-n-Shtuff

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Allelon - "a movement of missional leaders" -- They have a website which has a number of resources, but I'm really loving Alan Roxburgh's netcast (especially the audio podcast) the most.  There are things said that I don't like or agree with, but in general this is a great podcast for seeing the emerging missional church for what it is and what it claims to be in different locations.  The interview with Steve Taylor is really great.

Theology Unplugged (TUP) is a podcast by some Dallas Seminary profs.  They say, "The uniqueness of TUP is that we speak on theological issues of the day with clarity, honesty, and openness. TUP allows the listener to make informed judgments on the most important theological issues today."  Their seven part series on the emerging church is a great example of that.  I'm through the first three episodes and I'm pretty shocked at how well they do in trying to understand the emerging church.  Well worth hearing. (HT: Internet Monk Radio)

Peter Leithart finds ways of saying things that just make sense to me...

One of my recurring frustrations with recent debates in the Reformed world is a widespread failure of theological imagination. Too many seem to operate on the assumption that we have everything already figured out; we have all possible categories and positions ready to hand. All we need do is deploy these categories on whatever happens our way. It'll fit, Procrustes says.

Thus, it is seriously proposed that someone is either on the road to Rome or the Road to Geneva - with no possibility of a third (or fourth, or fifth) destination, with no possibility that there might be something in between (though in between is where much of the Christian world lives). And if I suggest that we Reformed might still have something to learn from the Bible about justification, then I must be Rabbinic or Roman Catholic - there simply is no other alternative.

The Evangelical Outpost (Joe Carter) wonders why Southern Baptists would create boundaries with alcohol that would exclude Jesus from leadership in the convention.  He asks, "Can we be more ethical than Jesus?"

Darryl Dash hears Tim Keller and blogs: Tim Keller on Spiritual Fruit and Ministry.

Desiring God Blog: 25 Ways to Help Kids Love to Read

Drew Goodmanson on Missional Eldership.

Miniature Earth -- "If the world's population were reduced to 100, it would look something like this..."

English 101 (we all make mistakes, but some of us make too many!)

Some Videos...

Children See, Children Do...

Doll Face...

Stop Motion Beatbox...

Reasons Why I Love Us

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Here's a reason why I love the SBC: Ed Stetzer. Stet_3Some good news from LifeWay...

Three Southern Baptist entities - LifeWay Christian Resources, the North American Mission Board (NAMB) and the International Mission Board (IMB) - have forged a collaborative research effort in which LifeWay Research will conduct special research projects on behalf of NAMB and IMB.

As part of the new initiative, Ed Stetzer, missiologist and senior director of the Center for Missional Research at NAMB, will become director of LifeWay Research, effective June 1. Stetzer also will serve as LifeWay’s missiologist in residence.

Ed Stetzer is a friend and I'm happy to see him doing some new things for the SBC and larger Christian mission in the world.

Reasons Why I Hate Us 4

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From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch...

The Missouri Baptist Convention has toughened its alcohol policy forpeople who receive money from the organization to start new churches.

Individuals who help found new churches were already required to sign a statement agreeing to abide by the organization's policy on alcohol consumption. Some of the new language requires those who receive money from the convention to go a step further and "teach the strong Biblical warnings of the consumption of alcohol for all Christians."

[...]

Missouri Baptist Convention interim executive director, the Rev. David Tolliver, said he did not know what precipitated the need for a policy change, saying only that the new policy "reflects the position of most Missouri Baptists."

He said the Journey was not affected by the toughened policy, because its leaders simply borrowed money from the convention to buy a new church building. "This new policy has nothing to do with them," he said. "It won't affect them."

Reasons Why I Hate Us 3

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Sorry to "hate us" so often (c'mon, that's a funny post title), but sometimes we demand it.

I received an email from my local association today saying that there are some scholarships available from the North American Mission Board (NAMB) for the Origins Conference in Pasadena, CA. Sounds like a lovely opportunity so I inquire, not knowing whether or not I could go in May. Hopeful.

Well now I know I CAN'T go. My schedule is wide open, partial scholarships are still available, but the Donger is disqualified. Wanna know why? Huh? KPOW! Here's part of the scholarship form...

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This is almost laughable. Asking about private prayer languages and alcohol on scholarship forms for conferences? SBC'rs you better wake up. If we don't start putting the Bible before our rules we are in deep weeds.

By the way, Joe Thorn will be posting in the next day or two on the NAMB policy for church planters. This will be important to discuss.

Reasons Why I Hate Us 2

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PubBaptist "Press" has two articles of note today (that's two more than normal). 

First is the "No Beer at NCAA 'Kind of Fun'" article.  This has to do with SBC life in what way?  I agree that basketball games without drunk frat guys are better, but this is clearly on BP as anti-alcohol prop-A-ganda.  Probably meant to bolster the second article, "Alcohol, Acts 29 and the SBC." 

My favorite quote...

The emerging church movement is diverse and difficult to generalize. However, the mix of influences includes: postmodernism (a focus on sense-making through the various mediums of culture); Calvinism ala John Piper; and for some, Christian liberty, as granted by their scriptural interpretation, to drink alcohol and engage in other cultural activities that many Southern Baptists eschew based on opposing scriptural interpretation.

Which passages would THAT interpretation come from?  Anyone?

Reasons Why I Hate Us

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I'm starting a new occasional post called "Reasons Why I Hate Us."  These posts will be about why I'm frustrated with the SBC and are geared to get us to think about what needs to change.  This is not about complaining but looking toward a better future.  And yes, "hate" is a strong word, but since I'm talking about "us" and not "them" I feel I can use a bit of harshness fairly.

As a first installment I offer an email from someone I've gotten to know over the last year.  I often get emails from people who read my blog and want to discuss some aspect of the SBC with me.  Too often they are frustrated with being in the SBC or trying to get in the SBC.  Here's an example of a guy who looked at the SBC as a place where he might be able to serve and was frustrated with how he was treated.  Yes, I know that our churches are autonomous and people can merely have bad experiences with some churches.  But I think this is a pretty common experience with the SBC and have gotten several emails like this.

The following has been edited by me with permission of the emailer.
_____

Hey Steve,

I've read that you're at a Southern Baptist Identity conference.  The last couple weeks have been interesting to me, and I thought I'd share my experience with you to: 1. get your thoughts, and 2. maybe add some perspective of the Southern Baptist identity from someone who is not one.

I've been looking for pastoral ministry positions over the last couple weeks.  My family is heading back to the Northwest soon and we are thinking seriously about planting a church or replanting in the _____ area.  As you may remember, I spent time as an associate pastor of a fairly large church in ______ before deciding I wanted to be a lead pastor so we moved to another state to finish my MA and now we're heading back.  I have some leads already, and I was actually offered a job at a big church as an associate, but because I wanted to either plant or replant a church, I thought about looking into the Southern Baptist movement (esp. since I was impressed with Ed Stetzer when I was at The Resurgence and the NAMB's focus on missional church planting).  To make a long story short, I've sent resumes to a couple different SBC churches and one church that was looking for a church planter for the ______ area (either of which I was really interested in).  However, these churches responded to me and said the same thing, "You're not a Southern Baptist, so we don't really think you'd be a good fit."  I have to admit, I was floored.  Since I have never been affiliated with any denomination maybe this isn't news to you to hear this, but I was actually expressing interest in being involved in the SBC, I'm from the NW and I understand its ethos and people, I have years of experience as a pastor in ______ and therefore I am really well connected to other churches in the ______ area and with many other pastors who are friends, and I'm well educated (Bible college, seminary and graduate school!).  This is basically the formula for a successful missional church plant.  I have to be fair, though.  The church plant that said we don't want you is actually sending my resume onto the NW SBC headquarters because they do think I "might make a good fit somewhere."  So they are not necessarily done talking to me, but I kind of feel like a wheel in the cog.

So, what is the reason I'm telling you this?  I'm definitely not looking for sympathy or for you to help me find a job because I wouldn't have made anything of it if these churches had said to me, "We don't want you because we want a guy with more experience" or something.  Besides, I'm certain I'll find a church.  But, I'm writing because I've been turned away because I'm not "one of you;" and you're one of the only Southern Baptists I know.  You wrote on your blog, "The only thing missing, in my opinion, were thoughts on networking beyond the denomination.  I think post-denominational networks are crucial, not just for the sake of the mission, but also for the sake of the denomination.  We will be healthier, stronger, more missional when we stop thinking we are the self-sustained force of the Great Commission."  I have personally experienced what you wrote, and honestly I find it really sad.

I asked to hang out with you and Joe once because I wanted to ask you questions about the denomination.  We didn't spend a whole lot of time talking about it, but I think I walked away with more confusion about what the SBC is about than ever.  Between the alcohol prohibitions (even though I don't even drink) and now this focus on "inbreeding" (!), I have to admit that it SEEMS like the SBC is more concerned with the denomination than with Jesus and reaching the world.  Obviously, I know this is not true, but I feel like I'm a Gentile and we play for the same team.  It's got to look worse from those who are not church-goers.

Seriously, do you really have to go to a SB Seminary to be a SB pastor?  I appreciate you and I know you love the SBC and I'm certain there are great things to love about it.  But I'm wondering if the denomination has gone on an adventure in missing the point?  Where is the focus on finding gifted and qualified people who LOVE an area and commissioning them to minister there instead of finding someone who doesn't know the area, but is SB, and transplanting them there?  I know I'm not the only one who has experienced this, as I have a friend who has recently felt the same walls (and he's trying to be a youth pastor).

I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts.  I did not write my comment on your blog because again, I do not want to be decisive.  But I have to admit, my latest experiences have really turned me away from wanting to be involved in the SBC.  Can/Should this be the reality?

_____

No, this should not be the reality.  But we are too often about the SBC brand than anything else. 

There are many in the SBC working in another direction that includes a love for the best of the SBC and a humble understanding of our common mission with other Christians and churches.  Ed Stetzer is a great example.  He is a key leader at NAMB yet he works with the Acts 29 Network.  I know a number of other SBC'rs who are involved with other networks, and I think they are the best example of how our churches should think.

I pray that the SBC would embrace a vision of the future that would be less about SBC pedigree and more about the mission.

Missouri Baptists & Alcohol (and Beyond)

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GuinnessThe alcohol issue in the Southern Baptist Convention (and Missouri Baptist Convention, think "Beer and the Bible" issue) is sucking even harder than some of us realized, and I realized a lot. 

I've heard through the grapevine that some church plants in the Missouri Baptist Convention are getting de-funded because of the alcohol issue.  This issue is NOT, as I understand it, only about the consumption of alcohol.  I know that some churches/pastors who don't consume alcohol are getting their church plants de-funded merely for not saying consumption is wrong.

If you are a Missouri Baptist and are dealing with these issues in some form, I would really appreciate an email with some basic info on your situation.  I will not make anything public unless you request/allow it since I know that your info and name on my blog puts you at risk.  But I would love to at least be able to keep up with the issue privately.

By the way and in case you didn't know, the aggressive search for SBC pastors, planters, and churches who are not in line with the alcohol policies of our entities has moved beyond Missouri.  It's in Illinois as well, and surely coming to a neighborhood near you. 

Notes on a Busy Day

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A couple of important things in my life at the moment...

Jack_hospital_1 - My 8 year old, Jack, had surgery today.  He had tubes put in his ears and his adenoids removed.  It has been a long day for us and longer for my son.  He's resting now, my wife is off helping our local school find a new principal, and I'm preparing for a funeral tomorrow morning. 

- Ed Stetzer, Darrin Patrick, and (by default) many younger leaders in the SBC are under attack from a Missouri guy named Roger Moran.  Marty Duren has the details and Joe Thorn adds some helpful thoughts.  Joe writes...

This appears to be a case of guilt by association. The gist of this man’s argument is that when we work with other evangelical bodies outside of the SBC we are endorsing everything anyone does or thinks who is also a part of that organization. Were this true it would create serious problems for many of our best leaders and professors who work with other groups who differ from the SBC but remain evangelical. The whole thing would be funny if this guy wasn’t serious, and wasting everyone else’s time.

Geez it's easy to hate us.  Stetzer just nailed it at the Baptist Identity Conference and then we have to get this kind of crap.  No wonder I get emails weekly from disgrunted young guys who either want to leave the convention because of stupid stuff like this or who thought about joining up with the SBC but have decided they aren't wanted for various silly reasons.  I will post an email soon from one of those guys.

By the way, Union U has modeled something that much of the rest of the SBC doesn't get.  Instead of screaming at and snubbing bloggers they embraced us, gave opportunities for their students to meet us, and made us feel welcome and appreciated.  Maybe Union should secede from the Convention? ;)

- I just received three different packages in the mail today.  One dude bought me a book from Amazon, Crossway sent me a book to review, and a well-known emerging church guy just sent me a pile of books (from commentaries to the very practical).  I got 14 books in all today, all for free from generous friends.  Thanks much guys!

Baptist ID Conference Audio

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I made it home safely.  One quick word to end the evening (as I get ready for tomorrow).  All of the audio for the Baptist Identity Conference is up, including Ed Stetzer's talk which is probably the most important thing a Baptist has said about the Convention in some time.  If you listen to one thing, listen to Ed.  If you listen to a handful, please hear Mike Day, Greg Thornbury, and David Dockery.  I haven't heard Timothy George since we had to leave early in order to get home in time to be ready for tomorrow. 

Baptist ID Conference: Day 3

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Geez, Ed Stetzer delivered a powerful, biblical, and thoughtful paper this morning.  Joe Thorn and I are getting ready to leave town and I don't have time to comment much, but this was fantastic.  Honestly, there is probably no way to do this justice in a post.  Maybe his paper will be made public at some point?  Dunno.  Grab the audio when it comes out at least.  Man, this was great.

Baptist ID Conference: Day 2

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Dang, I'm tired.  A long but good day.

Breakfast with Van Sanders (IHOP baby) and Joe this morning.  Good to think about mission work in the U.S. before the day really begins. 

The first speaker was Paige Patterson.  Paige was glued to the page, reading a paper on what Baptists can learn from the Anabaptists.  There were plenty of interesting points along the way, but nothing mind-blowing. 

The second speaker was Russ Moore, who was speaking at Union's chapel service.  He spoke on T.T. Eaton, an important figure in the history of Union University.  Russ tipped his hat to country music and slapped the bloggers, as expected.  As a whole it was a pretty insightful talk and some interesting history.  Russ didn't hold back on Eaton's problems either. 

The third speaker was David Dockery, the President of Union.  Dockery offered up a helpful summary of of Baptist history emphasizing recent history (since 1979, the conservative resurgence).  Really good stuff.  He offered some great insights on what our current problems are and why different types of Baptists that were necessary for the resurgence don't fit well into our controversy-less era.  He didn't offer much of a path foward, but I greatly appreciated Dockery's perspective and insights otherwise.

The fourth speaker was Greg Thornbury.  This was a great talk on the "angry young men" of the SBC, namely the bloggers.  He was rightly generous and understood the situation of blogs and Baptist life very well.  It was obvious he did his research and didn't just paint with a broad brush.  Greg explained the difference between anger and frustration among the bloggers and pointed out why focusing on Baptist Basics (instead of programs or battles) was the key to the future.

Greg gave a quote from UU prof Hal Poe that I felt was worth repeating.  He said, "Every culture has a question that only the Gospel can answer. Listen for the question." 

Greg is a friend (we met in seminary) and I'm glad he is in the SBC.  If it weren't for guys like him, bloggers like me would be much more frustrated.  I hope his voice grows and his wisdom is heard for the sake of our mission.

Joe and I skipped the last session today by Jim Shaddix on the future of the traditional church.  We both needed some time to finish our sermon work for Sunday and we really weren't interested in the topic.

We then grabbed some hot wings with Timmy Brister and Mark and Jacob (Union students).  Great conversation on seminary, church planting, and culture.

Now, me needy some sleepy.  Gnite.  Oh, and here are a few fun pictures I stole and added rainbows to.  Why?  I dunno.  It just seemed funny to add rainbows to people.  That's Frank Page, our buddies Mark and Jacob, Tom Ascol, and Thom Rainer.  Geez I'm random.  Enjoy!Mark_jacob_rainbows

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